Saturday, October 18, 2008

no signs of the times

K. and I have been trying to find a "No on 8" sign for our yard, as have our neighbors across the street, to no avail. I don't understand why; I don't see many around, so the campaign can't have underestimated demand and run out of them.

In any case, I'm going to repurpose the Pomona Heritage Home Tour sign in our yard -- flip it around and make my own NO ON 8 sign. Driving through the neighborhood, I see that various neighbors have improvised according to their own design sensibilities and strength of feeling. I particularly like the bedsheet hanging from a roofline that reads "vote NO on 8" in five-foot-high letters.

If you're wondering why you should vote no on 8, Tibbi lists his reasons in a recent post on Blurry Memoirs. To those I would add my own grouchiness at the fact that for more than a century (since Oscar Wilde went to Reading Gaol, at least), hetero culture has been criticizing gay people for supposedly being promiscuous... but if they want to settle down in a cozy monogamous relationship, good heavens, they're destroying the fabric of society!


Anduhrew said...

I don't know about this whole, "giving people rights that are different than me" thing. that whole diversity thing seems unamerican. kidding of course. I heard an argument against gay marriage saying "they just want the tax benefits of being married! that's the only reason why they want it legal!" my response? "So what! they want rights too!"

Anonymous said...

I have also been trying to find a NO on 8 sign. Thought about getting a yes sign and painting a big RED line through it on the bias. Probably not a good idea. Maybe a bunch could get together and make our own home made signs.

Three J

Pride in Garfield Park said...

There was a No on 8 phone bank yesterday in Claremont. There were suppose to be yard signs available (I wasn't able to attend as I'm out of town at the moment, so I can't confirm yard signs actually appeared). I'll drop a line to the organizer to see if extra signs are available; I'll let everyone know if I find a source. In the meantime, you can purchase campaign gear at

Anonymous said...

We are also doing the heritage sign flip. I have sent money to the "No on 8" campain but I have not been offered any signs. I probably paid for the vail on the wedding dress in that lame "No on 8" ad that was on the air.
While I was not surprised about all the McCain/Palin signs in Lincoln Park & have been totally thrown by the "yes on 8" signs. One went up across the street in our neighbors yard. This is a guy that has sat on our porch and talked about the weather. Not to pat ourselves on the back but Mike & I are fixtures in Lincoln Park and people know that we have been together for years. You could practically carbon date us.
I have always tried to live by the motto "Live your life as an example" and I guess that it is just not working. I am very dissapointed in some of my fellow Californians. We are better than this.

Ed said...

I'm not a "yes on 8" supporter,so it's difficult for me to lay out reasons why someone would support it. I do think some in the religious community have concerns over whether they may need to accommodate a same sex couples desire to be married in the church. Although my gut instinct and close legal adviser suggest otherwise, the "yes on 8" commercials have been stridently pushing the fear buttons.

It would be great if someone in favor of 8, could offer some anonymous insight into their position, but in reality, the polarization of the positions would likely lead to a caustic, fruitless exchange of ideas/biases. Thank goodness, the forefathers at least suggested the concept of 'separation of church and state'.

John Clifford said...


I have concerns about those who feel that it's a "church" issue.

First: These are many of the same arguments that were used to "justify" banning inter racial marriage.

Second: There is actually an opposite argument that there are a number of Christian denominations and other religions that do sanctify same sex unions. By passing Prop 8, you are actually denying a church from deciding to sanctify that union.

So much for the religious arguments.

Anonymous said...

but John....
I can't give you a percentage but most of the money that has been raised for prop 8 is from church groups (mostly outside of California I might add). The signatures that put it on the ballot were collected by church going folk.
How is this not a church issue? Many people don't give a crap about gay marriage. It will stop being a church issue when they get to re-write the California constitution.
If this passes and the constitution is changed then, mark my words, these people will go after domestic partnerships.

Ed said...

Although not a pivotal question for me, but would Prop 8 really prevent a religious group from sanctifying a same-sex marriage? I could see it invalidating that marriage in the eyes of the state of California, but could it prevent the organization from conducting the ceremony? And yeah, I know about all the reasons for having a marriage recognized by the state, so I'm not suggesting the two situations are the same.

The reason I'm asking is that it has to do with the question of whether failure of Prop 8 would force a church to sanctify a same-sex marriage (back to my previous comment).

Just curious.

Anonymous said...

Ed.... long story short...
If prop 8 does not pass, churches will not be forced to perform gay marriages.
It changes the wording of the constitution of California that marriage is between a man & a woman.
They are not forced to perform them now and it is currently legal for gays to marry.

John Clifford said...

I agree with Mark. A church can decide who it wants for members and who it wants to marry. There may be tax exemption issues, but that would be pretty slim.

When I suggested that the issue was not religious. I fully realized that it was "religious" folks behind it. My argument was more that it shouldn't be a religious issue. Just because churches are pushing it doesn't make it a good religious argument!

Anonymous said...

Look, like most of California, I voted for Prop 22 the first time around. But since gay marriage was allowed, it's become a big "meh" for me. The world has not come to an end, and although gay marriage causes one hell of a lot of federal tax complications, thus employing a few more tax preparers, nothing has really changed. If you really wanted to fight the definition of homosexuality as a protected class, the time to do that was when they added gayness to the list of things like age, religion, gender, race, etc. that you couldn't discriminate against. At this point, it's too late.

Anonymous said...

Your attitude is why something like this prop 8 shouldn't be on a ballot.
Peoples lives are affected by "meh" decisions in the booth.
While you are voting, as an example, for or against funding highway improvements, you can also take away a persons costitutional rights.
That makes it to easy to do on a whim.

meg said...

Actually, I vote no on all propositions, on principle. I consider the proposition system an end run around representative democracy, and most of the props are driven by the lunatic fringe (of one flavor or another). Even when I'm in favor of the idea behind the proposition, I vote no; they never seem to work out well for our poor old state.

(Posting from the Oregon coast...)

Anonymous said...

I totally agree.
I will use my new favorite term....
"low information voter"
L.I.V.'s do not take the time to learn anything on what they vote for and the people that put these propositions on ballots know this.
Then they use the media to scare people into voting for what ever they want.
A total end run from democracy.

Ed said...

Although I don't disagree with Meg and Mark, the same uninformed voter spends no greater time reviewing the candidate's positions than they do the wording of the propositions.

As far as 8, let's hope the bar to amend the state constitution is sufficient to allow us all to move on to funding education, improving our infrastructure, and in general, making our 'world' a better place. And my final comment is that in this march to make the world a better place, we don't forget that both sides of this argument believe theirs is the better path. One remnant from my years of religious upbringing is the realization that for some, "good religious arguments" are no more compelling than those based only on 'faith'.

And Mark, since this directly impacts you more than me, I hope it works out for you.

Karen said...

I purchased my "No on 8" signs from

Pride in Garfield Park said...

Hi All. Here's some info on where to find signs:

1. The No on 8 campaign evidently has a presence at the Upland farmers market on Thursday evenings. I'm told you can get signs there.

2. There will be a No on 8 phone bank this Sunday from 6:30 - 9:00 PM on the Pomona College campus. I'm told they'll have signs. You can find the phone bank folks at the Asian American Resource Center. They would love volunteers, too. So bring your cell phone and start dialing.

As a Unitarian Universalist, freedom to marry another person of the same sex is a highly religious issue. I stand on the side of love and equal rights for all people.

me said...

You might want to try the folk music store in claremont. I've noticed they have politic signs at the front of the store for the taking from time to time.

I too have been taken aback by the amount of Yes on 8 signs in Lincoln Park. Ok, so there are only about 6 of them, but they come off as hateful and in your face. I noticed that the yes on 8 sign on the 100 block of Lincoln was ripped up over the weekend.

G of P

calwatch said...

Meg, you should consider voting yes on three state propositions: Proposition 1A, which allows the state to borrow $10 billion for high speed rail; Proposition 11, which will finally end the gerrymandered districts in 2012 for our state legislature, thus giving our representatives real competition; and Proposition 12, which are bonds for veteran's housing. Also, vote yes on Measure R, which will raise the sales tax by one halt percent to fund more rail and better streets.

Pride in Garfield Park said...

Update on phone banks and other happenings to support the No on 8 campaign:

1. Sunday Oct. 26 and Sunday Nov 2 from 5-8:30 p.m. at the Claremont United Methodist Church, 211 W. Foothill Blvd.

2. Tuesday, October 28th @ 6:00pm ­ 8:30pm. Asian American Resource Center (AARC), Smith Campus Center #240, Pomona College

3. Rally on the corner of Foothill and Day Creek in Rancho Cucamunga. Monday, October 27 from 4 - 6 PM. Park in the Circuit City lot; bring your handmade signs (I _finally_ got a yard sign at today's rally).

4. Rally on the corner of Foothill and Day Creek in Rancho next Saturday from 2 - 5 Park in the Circuit City lot; bring your handmade signs.

5. If you use Facebook, consider changing your profile picture to a No on 8 image.